I always had problems with multiple-guess questions -- until I realized that the desired answers were usually always found in "review" manuals that could be boughten for $$$...
Assuming you are correct in your assumption or proposal that his man could simply buy the answers in a review manual or course, that doesn't seem to support the fairness or quality of that type of exam, which is the point it seems he is making. It just means you might consider those who don't buy the answers as being not resourceful. Not sure I agree with that.
Sorry to have a different experience but, as an example, after failing my Surgery Boards for two straight years (I had always passed the orals, which are like essay exams), I passed at the 3rd try by reviewing the Board Review in Surgery for the past five years -- and in record time!...
That experience allowed me to pass each of my re-certification exams -- also in record time!...
I remember, but sadly only in retrospect, that the math and my other teachers at Brooklyn Technical High School used paperback Regents Review books for us to study for the state exams. Worked well...
Never went to law school but do have several Law Review manuals that I would have studied at length to pass the bar exam...
Passing multiple choice exams -- or multiple guess exams -- are not always indicative of one's skill in a field. I have encountered unusually gifted individuals with high marks at these exams but who never demonstrated the expertise that would be expected from their exam performance...
Spoiler alert!!!...perhaps my poor performance at multiple choice questions relates to the fact that English is my 3rd language (after Norwegian and German) -- just as Mr. Park's English might be his 2nd language...
I agree with you on your reply. Perhaps I didn't understand your angle on the first post.
Test taking and practice are often miles apart in skill types. I have known plenty of "Straight A" students that couldn't or didn't apply what one would assume they learned as demonstrated by testing. And, conversely, know many "C or D" students that were great successes by many measures due to their hard work and tenacity.
Licensing and testing for approvals often represent dilemmas. We demand their to be a screening process; however, none is perfect. I think that's the point Mr. Park is making -- that the current system can likely be improved. I don't like the idea of dismissing that sort of suggestion. We can always improve and I don't want to shut down someone pointing out areas to do so.
Two state bar exam taker and passer. Maybe study harder? If you want to be a practicing lawyer, maybe don’t whine about things you can’t pass? Judges don’t like attorneys who won’t comply with the rules.
The man is advocating for a review of a methodology he finds unfair and unsupportable or, at least, questionable. That seems to be a good type of approach for a lawyer. Why whine about his letter rather than consider he may have a valid point? Judges don't like lawyers who refuse to be fair and judicious.
Not one multiple choice question is about South Dakota law. The South Dakota bar exam is a one of a kind bar exam. No other state in the United States calculates the bar exam like S.D. imagine that. It went from compensatory to non-compensatory in 2015.
He noted that not all "others" are able to pass the test, so he's not the only one that has had issues with it. What percentage would be within your definition of "able"?
We have a shortage of good lawyers. If we had no shortage of good lawyers, their fees would be substantially less. Have you hired a specialty lawyer recently? Their fees are outrageous. It's lousy system of "justice" that one has to pay so much to be represented to defend in any type of litigation or prosecution. Lawyers earn so much money that they are incentivized to drag out the process to book more hours and others to ambulance chase cases that they hope to settle by annoying someone to the point of paying just to be done with them. "Legal" harassment is awful.
Plus, I don't equate a multiple choice exam as identifying who would be a competent or reasonably honorable lawyer. No good lawyer practices law in the manner of a multiple choice exam. They have ideas on how to defend or prosecute a case but then do research to find ways of making or reasons to abandon an argument. None should make hasty, snap decisions about any area of law or their case. That's why the essay part is likely a better indicator of competency -- it's the methodology that's important. He passed that area, it should be noted.
Multiple choice questions give the correct answers. If you don’t recognize it you didn’t prepare yourself properly. Once again lack of effort has consequences.
Is it night or day? What is the correct answer? Most things are this way -- a matter of degree or interpretation/viewpoint or even, as in my example, seasonal and geographically influenced. As a student and educator, the most one can fairly say about many multiple choice questions is that their are "better" or "best" answers but often not definitively "the" correct answer.
Is slapping someone legal or illegal? Sometimes it's legal and sometimes it's not, sometimes it's assault, sometimes rude, sometimes just impolite, sometimes helpful, sometimes an important part of a diagnosis, as so on.
It's those differences in understanding and interpretation that require courts and lawyers. If everything was answerable correctly in a multiple choice manner, justice would be definite and clear. It's not.
I, too, had to take the multistate bar exam in 1991 as had pretty much every lawyer in the state except for the ones who had the diploma privilege in the part of the 70s and perhaps early 80s. What no one brings up is, is the test more difficult today, are professors less competent or are people studying less? I know that I studied approximately six hours a day for about seven weeks. Since I graduated midyear, there was no Barbri course in Pierre, I borrowed a Barbri book and studied on my own. I ordered practice tests and took them. This was before computers. From my limited discussions with people who failed, when I asked them how much they studied, it didn’t seem like a lot. They went to the course and didn’t practice much on their own. While I don’t know why people can’t pass, I think this should be looked at. I just know it was hard, took lots of work and I didn’t take off weekends, but did study less then because I had a child at home.
I always had problems with multiple-guess questions -- until I realized that the desired answers were usually always found in "review" manuals that could be boughten for $$$...
Assuming you are correct in your assumption or proposal that his man could simply buy the answers in a review manual or course, that doesn't seem to support the fairness or quality of that type of exam, which is the point it seems he is making. It just means you might consider those who don't buy the answers as being not resourceful. Not sure I agree with that.
Sorry to have a different experience but, as an example, after failing my Surgery Boards for two straight years (I had always passed the orals, which are like essay exams), I passed at the 3rd try by reviewing the Board Review in Surgery for the past five years -- and in record time!...
That experience allowed me to pass each of my re-certification exams -- also in record time!...
I remember, but sadly only in retrospect, that the math and my other teachers at Brooklyn Technical High School used paperback Regents Review books for us to study for the state exams. Worked well...
Never went to law school but do have several Law Review manuals that I would have studied at length to pass the bar exam...
Passing multiple choice exams -- or multiple guess exams -- are not always indicative of one's skill in a field. I have encountered unusually gifted individuals with high marks at these exams but who never demonstrated the expertise that would be expected from their exam performance...
Spoiler alert!!!...perhaps my poor performance at multiple choice questions relates to the fact that English is my 3rd language (after Norwegian and German) -- just as Mr. Park's English might be his 2nd language...
I agree with you on your reply. Perhaps I didn't understand your angle on the first post.
Test taking and practice are often miles apart in skill types. I have known plenty of "Straight A" students that couldn't or didn't apply what one would assume they learned as demonstrated by testing. And, conversely, know many "C or D" students that were great successes by many measures due to their hard work and tenacity.
Licensing and testing for approvals often represent dilemmas. We demand their to be a screening process; however, none is perfect. I think that's the point Mr. Park is making -- that the current system can likely be improved. I don't like the idea of dismissing that sort of suggestion. We can always improve and I don't want to shut down someone pointing out areas to do so.
Kind regards.
Two state bar exam taker and passer. Maybe study harder? If you want to be a practicing lawyer, maybe don’t whine about things you can’t pass? Judges don’t like attorneys who won’t comply with the rules.
The man is advocating for a review of a methodology he finds unfair and unsupportable or, at least, questionable. That seems to be a good type of approach for a lawyer. Why whine about his letter rather than consider he may have a valid point? Judges don't like lawyers who refuse to be fair and judicious.
English is a 2nd language for Jun. Jun's request to take the bar exam again was denied. He is no longer permitted to take the exam.
Not one multiple choice question is about South Dakota law. The South Dakota bar exam is a one of a kind bar exam. No other state in the United States calculates the bar exam like S.D. imagine that. It went from compensatory to non-compensatory in 2015.
Sounds like lack of preparation to me if others are able to pass the test. I also don’t think that we have a shortage of lawyers.
He noted that not all "others" are able to pass the test, so he's not the only one that has had issues with it. What percentage would be within your definition of "able"?
We have a shortage of good lawyers. If we had no shortage of good lawyers, their fees would be substantially less. Have you hired a specialty lawyer recently? Their fees are outrageous. It's lousy system of "justice" that one has to pay so much to be represented to defend in any type of litigation or prosecution. Lawyers earn so much money that they are incentivized to drag out the process to book more hours and others to ambulance chase cases that they hope to settle by annoying someone to the point of paying just to be done with them. "Legal" harassment is awful.
Plus, I don't equate a multiple choice exam as identifying who would be a competent or reasonably honorable lawyer. No good lawyer practices law in the manner of a multiple choice exam. They have ideas on how to defend or prosecute a case but then do research to find ways of making or reasons to abandon an argument. None should make hasty, snap decisions about any area of law or their case. That's why the essay part is likely a better indicator of competency -- it's the methodology that's important. He passed that area, it should be noted.
Multiple choice questions give the correct answers. If you don’t recognize it you didn’t prepare yourself properly. Once again lack of effort has consequences.
Is it night or day? What is the correct answer? Most things are this way -- a matter of degree or interpretation/viewpoint or even, as in my example, seasonal and geographically influenced. As a student and educator, the most one can fairly say about many multiple choice questions is that their are "better" or "best" answers but often not definitively "the" correct answer.
Is slapping someone legal or illegal? Sometimes it's legal and sometimes it's not, sometimes it's assault, sometimes rude, sometimes just impolite, sometimes helpful, sometimes an important part of a diagnosis, as so on.
It's those differences in understanding and interpretation that require courts and lawyers. If everything was answerable correctly in a multiple choice manner, justice would be definite and clear. It's not.
I, too, had to take the multistate bar exam in 1991 as had pretty much every lawyer in the state except for the ones who had the diploma privilege in the part of the 70s and perhaps early 80s. What no one brings up is, is the test more difficult today, are professors less competent or are people studying less? I know that I studied approximately six hours a day for about seven weeks. Since I graduated midyear, there was no Barbri course in Pierre, I borrowed a Barbri book and studied on my own. I ordered practice tests and took them. This was before computers. From my limited discussions with people who failed, when I asked them how much they studied, it didn’t seem like a lot. They went to the course and didn’t practice much on their own. While I don’t know why people can’t pass, I think this should be looked at. I just know it was hard, took lots of work and I didn’t take off weekends, but did study less then because I had a child at home.